Wednesday, December 28, 2011

manners

If you full-board your horse, do you expect the barn staff to install manners in him or her, or do you believe it is your responsibility to make sure your horse respects his or her handler on the ground?

Similarly, if you work at a barn with full-boarded horses whose owners may not be around much, how would you handle a very VERY rude horse? Would you take extra time to work with the horse, or just deal with its nonsense every day? Would you contact the owner and ask them to do something about it?

I'm talking about blatantly rude, disrespectful, and potentially dangerous behaviours. Spooking into the handler, disregarding the handler's personal bubble completely, refusing to move forward, pushing the handler around with the shoulder, yanking the handler around, etc.

(we got a new boarder. the horse is quite rude. I'm not impressed.)

18 comments:

  1. I would limit your handling of a horse like that. If you have to handle him/her, I would let the horse know your boundaries and reprimand bad behavior, especially if said behavior is dangerous. Is this the horse that knocked you down recently? When you do see the owners, I would definitely express your concerns. If they are unsympathetic or defensive, I would refuse to handle the horse.

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  2. I handle boarded horses every day, and I do NOT tolerate a horse that tries to walk all over me. If it does not respect my space, I use a chain over the nose and will circle it around me. If I EVER felt unsafe, I would not mess with it, and my barn owner supports me in that decision. NOT worth it to get hurt.

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  3. Jae, different horse. This new horse really made me uncomfortable today. I have developed a little bit of fear after getting run over a few weeks ago and I'm nervous around the horses now. I HATE that, because I've never been afraid of any horse. At least I know most of the horses tricks, but this new horse really put me on edge. She was rude going out this morning and coming in this evening. When I put her in her stall and took her halter off (I was standing in the door, as I always do, to have a quick escape if I need it), she spun around and tried to run right through me to escape. When I was bringing her in, she was either trying to muscle me out of the way with her shoulder, or she was planting her feet and refusing to move. If I didn't know better, I'd think she didn't even know how to lead properly! That's how bad it was. Unfortunately, taking them out every morning is what I do in exchange for Lucy's stall, so it's not something I can choose not to do. I do plan on talking to her owner when I see her next.

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  5. Maybe carry a dressage whip with you whenever you have to handle her, especially in the stall. It stinks that it's falling to you to train someone else's horse.

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  6. I think an owner is at fault for a horse with bad manners, regardless of whether it's boarded or not. For my own safety, I insist on proper behavior with every horse I handle. If someone else's horse barged a door, it would get reprimanded and the issue would be addressed immediately. I wouldn't take time out of my schedule to specially handle the horse and 'install' manners, but I would reprimand and demand respect in the times when I have to handle the horse. And, yes, I would tell the owner it's a problem.

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  7. I would talk to the owner but I also think that because of your situation you have a right to demand respect from that horse.

    While I don't have contact with every horse daily I do help a lot in my barn. Most of the horses have great manners but we do have a few that can be a bit bull headed. What I deal with mostly is the horses that lunge at you when you walk past or some are very nasty in the cross ties and I always do my best to ask for respect but it generally requires repetition. We had a horse that for awhile you always carried dressage whip when you were working with her. Obviously we NEVER hit her with it but all you had to do was hold it out and she knew that she needed to back up. Similar to how it would be used under saddle. That being said you would obviously want to talk to the owner... This mares owner wanted all the help she could get with reforming the mares mannerisms so she asked us to do as she did when handling her... Hope you work it out. It is never fun to feel scared or intimidated by a horse :(

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  8. I think you need to discipline the horse because you're safety is affected and safety is most important. I agree that perhaps a dressage whip could help, or make lead her with a chain. Talking to the owner and letting them know about the issue is good too.

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  9. I work with many horses belonging to other people, and in my opinion it's the owner's job to install manners in their horses, but in my experience they often don't. My mare has near perfect ground manners because I insist she does, but many people don't take the time, nor do they care if their horse pushes them around. Such horses don't know what to do with themselves when I don't allow them to be rude and in my space. It's unfortunate that that's the case, but often times that's just how it is.

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  10. I think a talk with the owner is definitely in order. Explain to them that you feel unsafe and uncomfortable around this horse, and if they would be okay with you working on its manners. Maybe ask the owner what they do in situations like this to get a feel if they really know what they're doing (or not doing) and if not, its could be a good educational opportunity for them. If the owner puts up a fight, I would have a talk with your BO because a horse like this puts everyone's safety at risk.

    But...I wouldn't do anything yet without letting the owner know, either informed by you or the BO. I imagine owners who let their horses push them around like that would also be the ones to try abuse or something like that if you take a whip to the horse's butt when they're being back because you're hurting poor poopsie!

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  11. My horse likes to test new people and if they don't put him in his place he can get pushy on the ground. He was being rude (although not as rude as the horse you are dealing with) and since Prince was still behaved with me I had no idea it was going on. I was really glad to be told he was being a brat, and now I make a point to tell new people they are allowed to discipline him.

    That being said it sounds like this horse is worse than him so it might be something this horse is used to getting away with all the time and the owner is either not aware how dangerous the horse is or doesn't care or doesn't know how to train the horse herself. I would start by talking to the owner and seeing what the situation is. Maybe if they are also scared of the horse or don't know how to train it you could suggest them working with a trainer or your BO to learn how to teach the horse some manners.

    If the owner doesn't care I would get your BO involved. Let her know what's going on and she what she suggests.

    It sucks to have to train other people's horses but you need to do what you have to do to keep yourself safe. If that means having a few days of manners boot camp I would do it. Or if you can just carry a dressage whip to keep the horse out of your space then do that. It's not fair to you to be scared to do your job!

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  12. I did mention the issues to my BO and her response was that the horse has been living in a field with a run-in shelter and has more or less been untouched for two years. She said that the horse needed to be worked with (which, of course, I already knew). No one rode her or did any work with her. Well that explains a lot! This morning I went armed with a chain shank, a regular lead rope, and a crop. She was a brat for the first half of the walk out to her paddock but after some very short and concise reminders that I was STANDING THERE (ahh, so much fun), she shaped up a little bit and was mostly good for the second half of the walk.

    I have yet to meet the owner but when I do, I will discuss these things with her and ask her to do some work with the horse to establish basic ground manners and etiquette. I was torn between spending my own personal time and working with this horse, or dealing with her nonsense every day. If I spend time working with her, I will not get any monetary payment but she will be much more pleasant to bring out every morning. If I don't spend the time, I won't be taking yet MORE time away from my own horse fixing other people's problem horses, but I will also have to worry about getting pushed around each morning.

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  13. I do turnout at our barn too. It would be absolutely lovely if all the horses had perfect ground manners, but alas. I do what I need to do to be safe. If I thought that was going to be extreme measures of any kind, I'd clear it with the owner or trainer first, but ours are mostly good.

    Good luck! Sounds like things are improving.

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  14. Wow Cassie and I did not have any problem with her when we handled her. Incredible!

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  15. Anon, not sure who you are but Kenny mentioned she was much better coming in today. Maybe she got the message :)

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  16. I used to think that it was the horse's owner's responsibility, based upon the fact that I don't allow my horses to be rude or pushy, but after having to deal with a four-month-old stud colt who is not handled enough, would bite and kick, and try to jump on you when you entered the field (he was in the same field as my foal) I've come to the conclusion that it is alright for anyone handling the horse to discipline it. The colt no longer bites or kicks at me and I feel much safer being around him. I hope everything works out for you!

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  17. In a perfect world it would be the horse owner's responsibility to ensure their horse and everyone around its well being by instilling manners. Unfortunately, this isn't a perfect world. It sounds like this horse has had very minimal handling, and it's amazing how quickly horses forget to behave when they are not regularly haltered, led, worked, etc even when they do have the foundation of manners and training! It's a fine line when handling other people's horses because there are so many training philosophies out there, but the bottom line is your safety. While some people are very anti-chain and only believe in rope halters and natural horsemanship, etc, I think you did the right thing. If I had a horse that was barging as you describe I would use a chain over the nose and spend about 5 minutes teaching it to give to the pressure of the chain, and then every time there was barging ask for the horse to drop its head and back up. This has worked really well with every horse I've had an issue with, and I've had to turn out a lot of other people's problem horses over the years...LOL. It can be done as you turn out, doesn't add a ton of time to your day, and generally turns them around in about a week without stomping on any one's training philosophy too badly. It's actually the first thing I teach any horse I handle if they don't already know it, from a weanling to an OTTB to a big Eq campaigner...kind of like Dirty Dancing for horses...this is my space, that is your space. I think you also did the right thing by informing the barn owner. I probably wouldn't approach the horse's owner directly since we are so sensitive about any perceived criticism about our babies...let the barn owner handle this particular sensitive situation so that there is no friction between boarders. I wouldn't go out of my way to have lengthy training sessions with someone else's horse, and I'm sure that with regular handling this horse will improve and settle into her new routine...good luck!

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